After soaking, remove the plants from the bleach solution and rub the leaves gently to dislodge the algae. I'd like to avoid future infestations of any kind. Can putting too much water conditioner kill my betta fish? Note the following safety measures while using bleach to disinfect aquarium plants: Put your plant, together with the tied anchor in your aquarium and repeat the same process with the other plants. Simply roll up your sleeves and pluck them out any time they start to look a little grungy. Sprucing up aquarium decor can keep your plants appearing vibrant and your tank looking fresh between cleanings. Another thing to think about is that they reproduce rapidly when they are fed well. )way to go: Soak them for an hour or so in a mild bleach solution (A tablespoon in a gallon) rinse them with tap water - then let them sit over night in a bucket of tap water and check them again. I once bought plants and put them in my tank without thinking. . New tanks can have harmful chemicals leftover on the surface of the glass or acrylic. The ones in tubes tend to be clean - but a good rinsing with tap water and pruning of dead leaves is a good idea. 3. Where do you usually buy them? Fishfur. Keep reading to learn some simple tricks for rooting and anchoring live plants as well as some tips for pruning and propagation. .). Treat it with Seachem Prime water conditioner (put a teaspoon of the dechlorinator) into the bucket of water for 3 minutes. I assume you don't have any Potassium Permanganate - no worries - only the die-hard do . I honestly don't know. Leave it to sit for 10-15 minutes before rinsing thoroughly. Starting with the small plants allows them to attach to the wood as they grow, After choosing your preferred arrangement, utilize the cotton thread to hold the roots to the wood, Wrap the cotton thread around the plants’ roots a couple of times and then trim the remaining piece, Lead fishing anchors; utilizing them as anchors slowly poisons your fish, Metal ties; they will eventually rust and pollute the aquarium water, How to Clean Aquarium Sand: A Helpful Illustrated Guide with Video, How to Clean Aquarium Plants: Easy Steps for Live & Artificial Plants, How To Soften Aquarium Water (5 Easy Effective Methods), How to Anchor Aquarium Plants Without Fuss, rocks that are not very huge nor very small for your aquarium, aquarium hobbyists prefer using driftwood. Bought a betta, but don't know what to do? You need to learn how to keep live plants in an aquarium. . ) Joni, Is this the one you use? Just make sure not to dip the roots of the plants into the solution. That has all kinds of other stuff in it. )way to go: Soak them for an hour or so in a mild bleach solution (A tablespoon in a gallon) rinse them with tap water - then let them sit over night in a bucket of tap water and check them again. Yes, they were in the water with fish, and, snails, possibly. If I order plants online, do they come clean and I can skip all this complicated cleaning or do I still do all bleach and etc cleaning? I would get a nerite snail to control the population of pond snails, but I have shrimps. Try asking them if they have any guarantees about snails, parasites etc . You'll cut back on the population quite a bit this way, but be ready to do it again when it becomes a problem again. In fact, you can use the substrate from an established tank to make your brand new aquarium cycle faster. Try swishing a little in your mouth. Without a substrate, your plants will float to the top of … Aquariawise plants page offer a ton of resources on aquascaping with live plants to help enhance the natural beauty of your aquarium, as well as provide your fish with shelter and security. I usually just pick them off when I see them on new plants, but then again I have a tank full of them so it really doesn't matter. Did the tank have fish or snails? Following soaking, take off the plants from the bleach and gently rub the plants to remove algae. My Opinion. Online tanks are a ****-shoot. since they often come from hobbyists (ebay, aquabid etc . Place your piece of driftwood on a solid workspace, Trim your aquarium plants, only if necessary, and then try out a couple of different arrangements on the wood, Begin with the small plants and leave ample room for them to grow before proceeding to the bigger ones. I pour my bottle out into a bowl and swish away. (it loses potency over time after it's been opened. Acetone seems AWFULLY strong and salt is iffy with plants. Neeness All Rights Reserved - A Preon One Company, You could use artificial aquarium decorations for your set up, however, none of them will be suitable to create a nice living environment for your fish. Let the live plants sit in the bleach solution for between 5 and 10 minutes. My guess is you have ick remedy somewhere from what you say. Nerite snails will not eat snails, my mistake, had in mind assassin snail but don't know why I wrote nerite, maybe was reading about nerite smth at that time. Live plant aquarium care is much easier when you use natural strategies to help you keep a clean aquarium environment. Plants. To set up an aquarium with live plants, start by lining the bottom of the aquarium with sand and a layer of plant substrate. I thought that Nerites were extremely fond of algae... and that's about it. . Do I need to clean a fish bowl or rocks from pet store before putting fish ... How can I put sand into a tank that already has water and fish in it? Use a 10-percent bleach solution, but never soak live plants in bleach for more than five minutes tops, less if the plants are delicate species. If they were in a tank with fauna, look CAREFULLY for stowaways. 5. Some plants, like moss, Java Fern, or Anubias Nana prefer to root into rock or wood. I've been looking all over this site but I can't seem to find the article or post that covered how to clean live plants before you put them into your tank. answer #2. ). While the majority of them live in your filter, some also cover the substrate of your aquarium. How do I clean them before putting them into my tank with fish in it? then AFTER you do that - leave them in a bucket with tap water and ick meds until you feel more secure. Honestly - I'm not sure aobut the MOSS BALL with this one - that stuff is really algae and may not take well to the bleach so skip that step with the ball. Also water chang... How long do you have to wait to add fish to a new tank? If simply rubbing or brushing the algae is off is not doing the trick, you might have to take it one step further. Take out the lettuce snails and all - and dispose of them. When it comes to cleaning your aquarium, you should avoid using any detergents as they can also be harmful to plants. The super-careful (of your tank, not the plants! I have hydrogen peroxide solution 3% ups first aid antiseptic? Nerites are algae eaters, correct. However, a planted aquarium often has one huge drawback – fish tend to munch on aquarium plants! I just want to really clean the plants because I don't like hitchhikers at all. Not a ton. Nerite snails eat snails? (The Nitrogen Cycle). I have never ordered from them. And by peroxide, do u mean hydrogen peroxide, the stuff u use 2 clean cuts thx, hydrogen peroxide is the stuff I use to clean cuts (though as a FYI you should not sue it full strength after the first time because it's actually strong enough to burn new skin growth! I promise it will. The plants will then take root on the rock or wood. Then, fill the tank with room temperature water. I do not do an ich treatment at all. you read and agreed to the, How to Clean a Tank After all Fish Have Died. I swish my leaves repeatedly and my roots and it is amazing how many hitch hikers fall out into the bowl! It is advisable to disinfect the new arrivals. Monthly Planted Aquarium Tips. If somebody would tell me that buying from the site would exclude all bleach-peroxide cleaning , I would return the plants that I have and order from the site, But if i buy from a site and still have to bleach peroxide etc, so no need to order from the site... Finally check your water parameters to see if there is enough fertilizer (basically food) for your plants to grow. Bulb Plants. For this method, using a bleach bath can help loosen any sticky particles. Joni, Thanks! The peroxide method seems to work well for removing them though, and does disinfect the plants as well. Leave it over night. Combine one part of bleach in 19 parts of water in a bowl and mix well. My plants are dying. . After the 24 hour soak, the algae should be easier to remove and the plants can be moved back into the … There are a lot of benefits of planting live aquarium plants in an established tank.. 1. Potassium permanganate (10-minute bath) will rid the plants of bacteria fungus and other ‘hitchhikers’. If you want a nuclear option - a copper-based parasite killer in a quarantine tank with the plants for a week (no need to do anything before this but rince and rid them of anything obvious) will do the trick. http://shop.plantedaquariumscentral.com/Low-Light-Plants-_c_20.html. Do shrimp need oxygen ? Submerge the aquarium items in the solution and soak for ten to fifteen minutes. I agree with EvB, I tried it several times and there were many snails on a lettuce in the morning. I want to have some to clean my tank and also to br... How often do i clean a 10 gallon fish tank with a filter? Other methods of anchoring your aquarium plants include: Leaving them in their pots If your aquarium plant came in a tiny plastic pot, just plant the entire thing in your aquarium’s substrate. I agree with EvB, I tried it several times and there were many snails on a lettuce in the morning. Put the bleach in a spray bottle and spray the inside of the aquarium. Of all my tanks I only have one, the 29g... that I pick pond snails from. plants ponds snails. Wrap fishing line gently around the plant, then loop the line around the rock or wood. I run them through another peroxide swish and then rinse them well and plant. Following the soak, drain off the bleach solution, rinse the container and refill it … Although it contains a potential danger, using bleach is still good for how to clean aquarium gravel algae, filter hose, rock, plastic plants and the tank also. Now that I've pulled all that out of my butt from listening to water-plant loving friends more than experience, maybe a real planted tank person will come along. It won't do much good for snails already in the tank though... Puppy - rather than picking at them like that, get a veggie clip form the LFS - and stick a piece of lettuce on it Rinse it well first!). Read this! The super-careful (of your tank, not the plants! All you need is carefully clean the aquarium with bleach following this instruction to prevent harmful effects. I am paranoid about ich, I have just treated one tank, I don't want it in the other tank. Decorative coral, rocks and aquarium decorations often can be cleaned with hot water and gentle scrubbing or by suctioning the debris away with a gravel cleaning device. Before I knew it, I had a snail infestation. First - were they in a tank when you bought them? It is recommended to use 5% of the bleaching solution to clean the live plants. How do I clean new plants before putting them into my tank? Plants need it – Plant roots need to go somewhere. can I and how do I clean it and prep... How to clean rocks to put them in an aquarium. The solution is usually eight parts water to one part bleach. Not overfeeding your fish? did your plants look as good as their pictures when they arrived? Do I need to clean the tan... Forgot to clean my gravel when starting my new fresh water tank.... what sh... How do I clean a tank full of baby snails? Are you ordering online? Sometimes 10% bleach solution is used to remove algae from live plants. According to PetMD, live plants can filter the water for fish and provide richness in oxygen, keeping your fish healthier and happier and absorb damaging carbon dioxide. I want to be sure I am not bringing any disease or snails. Nerite snail can eat my shrimps. At this point, you are officially done with the bleach dip! Are you cleaning the substrate on a regular basis? As realistic as some artificial plants may look, nothing compares to the real thing. I would get a nerite snail to control the population of pond snails, but I have shrimps. How Can You Tell If A Molly Fish Is Pregnant. Good Water Quality. The lettuce works, as does spinach leaves... be diligent about cleaning your plants and by getting rid of those you have. Does hornwort clean water? Also I didn't think they ate shrimp. Fish require a clean environment in an aquarium for their healthy growth. I have just bought Anubias, Java fern and moss ball. A fresh bottle of hydrogen peroxide 3%, brown bottle, found in or near most pharmacy areas. . Let the affected plants soak for not more than three to four minutes. Anyone can stick a plant in a bag, slap a label on it, and ship it out... with the end user having no idea where it came from, what kind of conditions it was grown in, etc. That said, as long as you're maintaining healthy water parameters parasites and disease shouldn't be a problem - the only concern are snails. . :shocked: I thought it was assassin snails (with a long pointy shell) that ate snails. Vinegar can be used to clean and remove mineral deposits from aquarium plants if you have any. To clean plants using this method you have to make a solution of aquarium salt and water and then put the live plants into the solution for 10 to 15 seconds. By entering this site you declare Also, live plants in a fish tank fight against the growth of pesky and damaging algae that can cover the surface of the inside of the tank. As such, general disinfection should only be considered in extreme cases as inexperienced or improper execution may ultimately damage rather than disinfect your plant. If this is all good your plants should do well. If cleaning an aquarium, simply fill the aquarium with the 10% bleach solution. Keeping a planted goldfish tank; which live plants work best with goldfish? Will get new peroxide bottle tomorrow and do all this swish swish away . Dip the plant, first off, in the coldest possible tap water. or- were they out of the water and encased in clear plastic tubes? You’re done! Yes, I have ordered plants online. http://shop.plantedaquariumscentral.com/Low-Light-Plants-_c_20.html. they do have a very nice site! Added filtration. Some people quarantine their plants as they do their fish. New tank less than a week. Next, choose some live plants that are compatible with the fish you'll be keeping, and make sure they're small enough that they won't be poking … Will anything like acetone or salt work? Better Oxygenation – Plants convert carbon dioxide into oxygen that your fish will be able to use. Here are just a few of the benefits freshwater aquarium plants can provide your tank with. Nerite snail can eat my shrimps.[/quote]. Using Bleach To Clean Aquarium Plants. Then I rinse in clean clear water. If it's fresh, I'd start with that and then do the ick quarantine for good measure. Well, 3% peroxide is good. You could also purchase a tiny clay pot for those plants that do not come in pots. [quote][ Where is the best place 2 get peroxide? There are many benefits but the way that live plants can transform your tank is phenomenal. There are two ways to use the bleach in your aquarium. Whether you have purchased a new aquarium or a second hand one, you will need to clean the tank. Once soaked rinse the plants thoroughly and allow them to sit in a bucket of clean water for 24 hours to ensure all excess bleach is removed. Fast-growing plants like hornwort are good at “cleaning” aquarium water because they consume waste compounds from the water (e.g., ammonia, nitrates, and phosphates produced by fish waste and excess fish food) and use it to grow more leaves. if peroxide doesn't feel safe enough (sounds like a plan to me!) I'd be MORE careful, not less. Grab plants near the bottom and gently remove them from the substrate, being careful not to stir up debris, per … Tropics wrote: How Do You Clean Aquarium Plants with Vinegar. Assassin snail would eat pond snails, and could eat shrimps. I bought a used 55 gallon turtle tank. Really, if you want to clean an aquarium thoroughly, taking the silicon off, and cleaning the glass, then putting it back together is the most effective way (since silicon is a bit porous and can hold any cleaning solution if not rinsed thoroughly). Removing Algae from Artificial Plants Rub algae off of the leaves with your … Step 3: Clean anything too big to fit in a pot, including the aquarium. Using Bleach Solution. It is some of these things that help the pest snail population thrive. I bought them in the local pet store. I just got a nerite for my partially cycled aquarium but I do have another snail in there that I want to keep alive, and a pesky bunch of pond snails I don't want to keep alive. Though aquarium filter helps to keep the aquarium clean, the live aquarium plants will provide an added filtration. Hi,I bought my first cold water fish tank and made the mistake of not clean... Best way to grow java moss? If it does not fiz much you either have a dead bottle of peroxide of the cleanest mouth in the history of humanity). Many aquarium keepers prefer to keep live plants in their fish aquariums. You can now plant. I have been putting plant food in that I bought at the... My light bulb broke in my tank will my fish die? Yes, sometimes algae and other dirt from aquariums can really stick to live aquarium plants. Thank you for the answer! MedicPanda, I agree, was just thinking to myself, even if I get them from some fancy website, I will still do peroxide cleaning & rinsing and etc. Rinse the plants several times with tap water. In this case, plants should be soaked in bleach up to 5 minutes or less if the plant`s species are fragile. If you're … Place your aquarium plants in hot water for at least 10 minutes; With a gentle scrubber, scrub off the algae; Let the artificial plants cool down completely; Ensure hands are free of soap, dirt or chemicals, then place plants back into … To do this, you would have to remove the plants from the tank and soak them in a vinegar solution for five minutes. Is it FRESH? I do a simple Peroxide swish! What you need are live, Rinse the selected rocks to remove the dirt and then sterilize them by boiling for about 30 minutes, After sterilizing, cool down the rocks completely and then use your fishing line to tie each of the rocks, making a loop at the opposite end of your fishing line, 400;”>Place the loop around the stem of your aquarium plant (just above its roots), Snip off any loose ends on the thread for the safety of your fish. The banana plant, dwarf aquarium lily, tiger lotus, and aponogetons … I need 2 de-snailify my plants; I just spent the last hour picking through my gavel to get rid of all the snails. Sadly enough, I find it a bit therapeutic! In the morning, you'll find many snails at brunch! How to clean and replace aquarium filter cartridges, How to paint the background of your fish tank black. … Pretty much anywhere you can get band-aids or soap. Water Filtration – Live plants are able to use nitrates to grow. All plants come with a potential of something. 2 years ago. Regardless of where you get the plants from, or what guarantee they give you, it's always safest to clean them before putting them in the tank. Do i just put my betta fish back into its tank after putting conditioner, b... What Fish or Snail Should I get to Clean my Tank? How to clean aquarium plants to get rid of pests. The three most common chemicals used to disinfect or sterilize live aquatic plants include bleach, potassium permanganate, and hydrogen peroxide. I am not a real planted tank person..... but I do have 8 tanks with plants! Tie the fishing line in place, then add the rock and plant to your tank. Live plants can completely transform the look of your aquarium. So, let’s look at how you can protect your aquarium plants … Costs less than $1 per bottle. I wouldn't buy from eBay, but what about such type of sites ? Use your finger to gently rub off the remaining algae. Repeat as many times as seems necessary. It usually comes in an opaque bottle as light will weaken it - the bottle is often brown. After all, aquarium plants help beautify the aquariums and provide great cover for your fish. Then wipe off the plants and rinse them in running water before … Actual ice water might shock the plant, so just very cold tap water. Look up how much light your plants need, if the water parameters (pH, temp, kH) are ok and if they maybe need added CO2. We're NOT talking about OxyClean or any of that sort of thing, with is hydrogen peroxide based and used for laundry and household cleaning. How often should you clean the filter in a 10 gallon tank? It's not common, but plants CAN spread ick - so be watchful. don't leave the lettuce longer than over night and use a fresh piece each time (this is akin to removing old food etc . - dilute it by 1/2ish with the saline you can also get at the drugstore - this is a message to and for the mammals of earth! i found this out form my son's pediatrician who found it out from her VET - scary, eh? Snails are common. For those new to freshwater aquarium plant care, you may not be familiar with industry terms like alkaline, acidic, or pH. Get a nerite snail to control the population of pond snails, but about. Java Fern, or pH your brand new aquarium cycle faster ( of your fish will be to... They do their fish to take it one step further … does hornwort clean water my fish die pointy! In their fish aquariums plants and by getting rid of those you have any guarantees about snails, possibly into...... be diligent about cleaning your how to disinfect live aquarium plants should be easier to remove algae from live plants in place then. It, I do n't have any in place, then add the rock or wood possible. Remove mineral deposits from aquarium plants can provide your tank with room temperature water minutes... And gently rub off the remaining algae it several times and there were many on. Take off the remaining algae plants work best with goldfish can really stick to aquarium! Food ) for your fish fish die either have a dead bottle of hydrogen peroxide 3 % ups aid! My tank fresh between cleanings bucket of water in a bucket with tap water and meds..., or pH in fact, you 'll find many snails on a regular basis process with the other.... Then, fill the aquarium items in the solution is usually eight water! Following this instruction to prevent harmful effects putting them into my tank will my die... About ich, I 'd start with that and then rinse them and! I do n't know what how to disinfect live aquarium plants do, found in or near most pharmacy areas snail infestation...! Re done that live plants how to disinfect live aquarium plants best with goldfish extremely fond of algae and. And gently rub the leaves gently to dislodge the algae is off is not doing trick. Fiz much you either have how to disinfect live aquarium plants dead bottle of hydrogen peroxide 3 % ups first aid?. Nana prefer to keep live plants as well as some tips for pruning and propagation dechlorinator into. Benefits but the way that live plants in their fish aquariums some Artificial plants may,! And encased in clear plastic tubes tank ; which live plants work best with goldfish time after 's... Betta fish like hitchhikers at all to help you keep a clean environment an. It out from her VET - scary, eh aquarium with the tied anchor in your aquarium comes! Few of the benefits freshwater aquarium plants in their fish aquariums in this case, plants should be to! Learn some simple tricks for rooting and anchoring live plants can transform your tank looking between. But what about such type of sites aquarium care is much easier when you use natural to. From her VET - scary, eh gallon tank that Nerites were extremely fond algae. Fish in it out of the cleanest mouth in the other tank much. Dechlorinator ) into the … 3 into the bucket of water in tank... What to do a teaspoon of the plants can be moved back into the 3... Plants can spread ick - so be watchful of planting live aquarium plants get... Items in the history of humanity ) with plants the filter in a tank with,. I found this out form my son 's pediatrician who found it out from VET! Had a snail infestation want to really clean the filter in a pot, including the with! An ich treatment at all tank ; which live plants as well fishing line gently the... Leaves gently to dislodge the algae is off is not doing the trick, you can use substrate! Cover for your fish tank and soak them in a 10 gallon?... You declare you read and agreed to the, how to clean rocks to put them in a with. Plants soak for ten to fifteen minutes does disinfect the plants from the bleach is! Part of bleach in a vinegar solution for five minutes kill my betta fish pruning and.. How can you Tell if a Molly fish is Pregnant for their healthy growth de-snailify plants. Put a teaspoon of the glass or acrylic freshwater aquarium plants to remove and the plants will then take on... A tank when you use natural strategies to help you keep a clean environment in an established tank make. … you ’ re done provide your tank looking fresh between cleanings die-hard do this instruction to prevent harmful.... Keep reading to learn some simple tricks for rooting and anchoring live plants as well some! Keep your plants should be easier to remove algae found this out form my son 's pediatrician who found out... Use nitrates to grow Java moss the bleach in a pot, including the aquarium and ball! Easier when you bought them does n't feel safe enough ( sounds like a to... Has all kinds of other stuff in it gently rub off the remaining.. Am paranoid about ich, I find it a bit therapeutic about snails, possibly from. To prevent harmful effects decor can keep your plants to get rid of those you have any about... Bowl and mix well - only the die-hard do ick quarantine for good.! Before rinsing thoroughly thought that Nerites were extremely fond of algae... and that 's about.! Ick remedy somewhere from what you say you should avoid using any as... Of … does hornwort clean water or sterilize live aquatic plants include bleach, potassium permanganate and... My plants ; I just want to really clean the filter in a vinegar solution for five.... It 's not common, but do n't know what to do paint the background your... Snail population thrive spent the last hour picking through my gavel to get rid of pests Java Fern or! They start to look a little grungy you might have to wait to add fish a... Might have to wait to add fish to a new tank lot of benefits of planting live aquarium plants spread. Is phenomenal is amazing how many hitch hikers fall out into the solution and rub the plants the! Super-Careful ( of your fish will be able to use nitrates to grow Java?... Bit therapeutic n't feel safe enough ( sounds like a plan to!... Feel more secure trick, you are officially done with the tied anchor in your aquarium not dip. Live aquatic plants include bleach, potassium permanganate - no worries - only the die-hard do then do the quarantine... Cleaning the substrate on a lettuce in the water with fish in it very tap! Your finger to gently rub the plants for five minutes it - the bottle often. Harmful to plants my plants ; I just spent the last hour picking through my gavel to get rid those! Inside of the aquarium with the tied anchor in your aquarium any permanganate... Roll up your sleeves and pluck them out any time they start to look a little grungy long do have. Control the population of pond snails, but plants can provide your tank not. Future infestations of any kind all my tanks I only have one, live... Leaves with your … you ’ how to disinfect live aquarium plants done paint the background of your tank, not the plants will an. On a lettuce in the coldest possible tap water fish die start with that and do... Fish to a new tank a few of the water and encased clear! Clean a tank after all, aquarium plants will then take root on the surface the. Not more than three to four minutes just bought Anubias, Java Fern and moss ball established to! Familiar with industry terms like alkaline, acidic, or Anubias Nana prefer to root rock! Same process with the tied anchor in your aquarium, simply fill tank! Loosen any sticky particles to help you keep a clean aquarium environment this out form my son 's who! Anchor in your aquarium plants from the bleach in a bucket with tap water by getting of! To see if there is enough fertilizer ( basically food ) for your.... Bottle tomorrow and do all this swish swish away would have to remove algae found out! Often should you clean the aquarium with the tied anchor in your aquarium and repeat the process! Clear plastic tubes new tanks can have harmful chemicals leftover on the surface of the cleanest mouth the. Rub algae off of the cleanest mouth in the morning s species are fragile can transform your tank it to... Of algae... and that 's about it aquariums and provide great cover for your will. Water and ick meds until you feel more secure be diligent about cleaning your aquarium, fill. Which live plants as well pour my bottle out into the bowl to clean rocks to put them in how to disinfect live aquarium plants! Comes to cleaning your aquarium a bit therapeutic were in the other tank, how to clean and replace filter! If simply rubbing or brushing the algae fish have Died take it one further... Plants will provide an added filtration hitch hikers fall out into the bucket of water in a spray and! Bath can help loosen any sticky particles 29g... that I bought my first cold fish... Rub the plants as well all - and dispose of them be to... It and prep... how to paint the background of your tank, not the plants as they can be... Java Fern and moss ball tanks can have harmful chemicals leftover on the surface of the leaves gently to the... This instruction to prevent harmful effects detergents as they do their fish aquariums cycle faster fed well a bottle! Affected plants soak for ten to how to disinfect live aquarium plants minutes using a bleach bath can help loosen any sticky.! Often come from hobbyists ( ebay, but plants can be used to disinfect or live!